Originally Posted by LightningHell

Stop spreading wrong information, Scythes do not inherit the ability to land criticals. And you have the same chance to crit whether you're against a level 1 or a level 100. Not that there is.

Dervishes can SPAM attacks that WARRIOR'S can't.

Anymore irrelevent information/insulting and I'll close this thread.

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Can a moderator ban or warn this guy? He's derailing threads, multi-posting, insulting others, not reading what people's writing, spreading lies, etc.


Pham, my post was not directed to you, but to the OP who started a legit discussion on warriors wielding scythes. Don't be a egoistic ----.

As for what builds I use, I use different ones, some of which uses avtars, some of which don't. Completely irrelevant as my arguement is that all of them outclasses a W/D scythe wielder in most respect. Conditions and hexes are not an issue, and noone raised it. Your build in particular lacks DPS and utility, and just overall sucks, in my opinion. If you promise to stop derailing logical discussion with it, I'll use a Dervish 1v1 without Avatars, which, by the way, are legitimate and usable as LoM demonstrated, but I won't anyway. Let us ignore the fact that Dervish has far suprior utility purposes, cripples, AoE conditions, etc. Let us also ignore the loss of auto-critting in a 1v1 battle, since there will be no fleeing, and that it has less armor, which will show in a 1v1 whereas it wouldn't as much in a real game due to it being less squishy and thus less targetted-- and then let us focus only on the DPS and HPS. Simply put, if I prove to you that a Dervish can outpressure you in terms of raw damage, especially with these unfair conditions, would you shut up and stop harrassing others who are trying to discuss politely?

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Don't know about that, warriors are bad in 1v1 for more reasons than that. You simply don't frenzy in 1v1, and frenzy is a sexy skill. I'm not sure about damage pressure in PvE though. With skills like Mystic Sweep, and AoE Deepwound, I personally can see Dervish outdamaging warriors in the right situation, and definetly more independant, making it useful in split groups, especially without healers, although there are obviously restrictions that counteract these benefits. That's not exactly the discussion however, so whatever.

Originally Posted by pham917

read when you insert attribute points into scythes and get back to me. Better yet put a pic up on what it says. For the last time im not going to explain to you the game mechanics of dealing criticals. If that is a issue with you take it up with one of arena nets finest.

Originally Posted by Rera

Actually, critical hits are dependant on the difference between your level and the target's level. Even if you don't believe the wiki, you can test the number of criticals you get vs. a level 1 enemy to the number of criticals vs. a level 24 enemy. You will find that you critical a good 90% of the time against low-level enemies with 16 in weapon mastery.

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I better get someone else to moderate this thread.



All weapon masteries are the same in the part of Critical Hits, as far as I know.



Do this more, and you'll get banned. If you try making new names, we'll IP-ban you.



My sword warrior can never kill a Dolyak Sig-Dual Riposte-Healing Breeze tank.



W/D, even if it can compare to the D/X (which I highly doubt), cannot be as flexible as a normal warrior or dervish.



Wrong. In case you didn't know, Dervishes do have some attack skills too. Oh noes! They also have a decent IAS, I've been told.



I've won plenty of times as a Flashbot vs. clueless Fire nukers, as well. Dervishes don't necessarily NEED enchantments, they just function better with them. A lot better, may I add.



For the signet that strips an enchant.






Calling me an "IDIOT" is some sort of "harras"ment to me.



It is relevant; his main point is, why use W/D when D/X can do better?



I stand corrected.

I will continue posting; I got to go.

Originally Posted by Effigy

Wow. First of all, learn to use paragraphs.

Second, stop flaming everytime someone disagrees with you. Especially if that person is a mod.

Third, how about making some goddamn sense. That post was just ridiculous and I don't even know where to begin commenting on it because it's a jumbled pile of nonsense.

Despite your claims, pham, almost everyone who posted in this thread did so in a reasonable and thoughtful manner. You seem to be the exception to your own rule.

Originally Posted by Kratos007

Actually it did make a lot of sense. The real question is, such as gogo pointed out earlier is, "the damage is there but how will it come into play?" Ive killed many players and died many times. Im constantly working on this build because i find it promising. Also as Pham917 points out.. This thread is about Warriors using scythes nothing about the success of utlizing the primary dervish. The line "Wow. First of all, learn to use paragraphs." marks a sense of disdain and annoyance so therefore can be categorized as calling someone stupid.

Originally Posted by Effigy

Second, stop flaming everytime someone disagrees with you. Especially if that person is a mod.

Originally Posted by Kratos007

The line "Wow. First of all, learn to use paragraphs." marks a sense of disdain and annoyance so therefore can be categorized as calling someone stupid.

Originally Posted by Forum Rules

This is a message board, not a chat room. Secondly, DO NOT use "Leet-Speak" in our forums. As such, you have all the time necessary to articulate your posts in a coherent matter. "You" is only two more letters than "u." It will not kill you to type them. Completely illegible posts are subject to moderation - and I can not guarantee their accuracy of 'translating' the author’s original message.

Additionally, when one punctuation works instead of 10 (example: ? instead of ?!?!), use one.

Originally Posted by Kratos007

Actually it did make a lot of sense. The real question is, such as gogo pointed out earlier is, "the damage is there but how will it come into play?" Ive killed many players and died many times. Im constantly working on this build because i find it promising. Also as Pham917 points out.. This thread is about Warriors using scythes nothing about the success of utlizing the primary dervish.

Originally Posted by pham917

Yea dervishes have ias if they use a skill that requires an enchantment and has a 20 sec refresh rate. whats the good of it if you have to be under an enchantment and you decide to cancel it? There goes ias. They still swing at 1.75 per hit so its ridiculous to compare it to the speed of a warrior. Say you make a dervish have warrior as a secondary so that leaves you with only one ias skill frenzy, which is incredibly dumb to use due to thier armor class and tanking abilitys. We all know warriors are the best tankers that is a laid out truth. Also your right, what he said is relevant to what he explained but still no where near the topic of this thread. Now you say dervishes dont need enchantments. Wrong no enchantments no IAS. Also with your banning me comments. Its called Ip address refresh. If they ban me i wont cry. Admin had plenty of opportunities to ban me after every "vitriol" remark i made about you. Besides i asked admin to close my thread because people like you have no idea how to contribute to the main topics of thread. IF your so content about making a dervish so godly then make a thread about that. Anyways i told you that scythes inherits critcals and told you to read it.. All you can say that as far as YOU know they are all the same. Thats not saying much buddy considering what you read in-game and thats what YOU think. What i mean by saying scythes have better critical chance is due to the fact it even says so. The higher the attribute lvl the better at it inflicting criticals. It says it in bold print in-game see yourself. OF course all weapons has a chance to land criticals just not anywhere near a scythe. There are plenty of factors in landing criticals and indeed level diffrential is one of them so is weapon mastery. Anyways Im sorry, but a D/X has no secondary. What are you going to do use monk as secondary? Put pts into healing attribute and lower the cost of wind earth mystism? Sorry to put it to you but you cant have everything. THe bad thing about Dervishes is energy consumption and recharge rates for thier skills. Also thier skill list is very broad where health techs are in earth, IAS in wind, etc. SO in all actuallity its hard to decide where to make use of its skills, one area where a dervish can excel the others falters. In my opinion Dervish alone is good enough. WHere in my build its quite simple Max strength, scythe, rest tactics. Its basically like a warrior but with a scythe. Now do you understand? The critical formula was written by the one of the people that contributed to the game. I think ill stick with that. Also in regards in your smart ass comments about spelling. Its Knows not noes. Also to Mr Rera, dont rely on dervish skills then. Use strength moves such as magehunter strike, power attack, counter attack, etc. Those are very low cost and deal over a 100 damage to AL 60. Just be smart and make sure your critical chance is high of course. Also speed will help you in this build too. However if you do still think its a bad idea. There are other threads. Also me calling you an idiot was from a previous thread. Besides if i known you were asain from the start i wouldnt of said that. >< Asians are indeed one of the most difficult people to argue with especially on video games. Another stereotype that should be removed. Anyways if your just going to comment again to counter all that i say. You win. I said all i can man all i want is ways to improve it. Not ways to destroy it. Im might sure theres plenty of W/D going to erupt just keep your eyes peeled.

Originally Posted by Effigy

Considering that The Iliad was written in Greek, I don't know what that has to do with text size or the use of paragraphs. Essentially, you're accusing me of being stupid because you are too lazy to hit the Enter key when you begin a new thought in your post. Again, this is an attempt to deflect a valid point by flaming someone who doesn't agree with you. I wouldn't make a big deal about it if you didn't do it every single time.


Have you read any other posts by this guy? This is not an isolated incident.

I already expressed my thoughts about a scythe-wielding W/D. The problem is, pham doesn't concede to anyone else's points in this argument. If someone disagrees with him, he either repeats what he already said, or flames the other person, or both. There's no need for that kind of juvenile crap on this forum and frankly it pisses me off to see it happening.

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Muha!



Actually his concern is legitimate...



And back to the post...



It is about Warriors using Scythes as a W/D. But a key question you need to answer as a W/D is...what are the benefits of using W/D, since D/X attacks clearly outclass W/D ones? Not to mention the damage that a normal Sword/Axe/Hammer wielding Warrior also outclasses this.



/eyes bleed

I don't know where to begin, so I'll do it like...



Keep an enchantment on constantly, then. /doh

Dervishes are built around Enchantments. Why not USE them?



Assuming you're talking about PvP, no, Warriors do not tank. Dervishes likely don't tank as well, since their Enchantments can negate some damage. However, I still don't see any Scythe holders taking the place of a Warrior consistently.



So, no IAS means a Dervish can't attack. And yes, a Warrior can function without Frenzy. They're rare, but they're there. Not meaning they're good though.

I did not say that Dervishes can function perfectly without Enchantments. I said Dervishes can still function without Enchantments.

And on the same line, Dervishes that don't use Enchantments are either very specialized or aren't good at all.



Let's not argue about the computer technology bits. I'll just say, I can request for a ban and I will.

This discussion is not about how godly Dervishes are. In fact, I dislike them. But you have to ask yourself, WHY USE A W/D WHEN A D/X CAN DO BETTER?



Give me a printscreen about how Scythes have a better critical chance and I'll /kneel. Yes, a Scythe has a higher chance to critical when it has a higher level. However, an Axe, a Sword, or a Hammer, also inherits this chance. It is the same progression for all weapons.



D/X means D/Whatever secondary profession you need. And the second part warrants for a “...”.



No, I don't understand. Please give me where Ensign said that SCYTHES HAVE OMGZ 1337 CRITS. Spreading attributes should not be a problem; I can't give a sample build, since GWiki is down and I'm not too familiar with Dervishes. However, for example, Deep Wound on 2r is tasty.

And Dervishes have 4 regeneration, I don't think they'll have problems spamming 5e skills. Warriors, though, will.



I know. Have you never heard of that phrase before? /scratches head



Apart from using Primal Rage to increase that to around 38% percent, it doesn't really work...



Yay, I win! Also, I should warn you, calling non-Asians idiots is considered racist. Don't do it, it's against forum rules.

Speed helps. Dervishes have that speed.

But seriously, you are not contributing to the discussion at all, apart from your first post. A parallel example is Kenji Akatsuki previously on the Elementalist forum, on his “Aquaman” build. You're not as extreme, but it still shows.



And it's probably all going to be for the signet that disenchants people.

I won't close this thread since people might want to resume previous discussion.

Originally Posted by pham917

I asked myself all of the following and everytime i go pvp i kill things. I think ill stick with what ive seen. yea dervishes have 4 e. If you're willing to spam warrior skills... such as what? They dont have strength as a primary. So no strength skills for you, so quit lying about spamming warrior skills. They cant. I mean you could use a sword or axe... but then thats pretty dumb. The only ias skill they have access to is frenzy. Which is stupid for a dervish due to thier low armor class. In regards of that only ias skill dervishes have (besides turning into a God) which is 25% attack speed, do keep the enchantment on, for that 10 sec of ias (if your willing to invest that much in wind mastery),if your too busy canceling it though. It ends. Besides the recharge rate is too damn long. 20 sec is a bummer.

Again read what in-game says about increasing your attribute in scythe. Im sure it says something about increasing its chance to land criticals. Where as other weapons dont state that. IF that were untrue why would they write that? In game typo perhaps? [url]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/833/gw015af9.png[url]

ever have 15 str? that gives you 55% chance of inflicting a critcal. Thats pretty high to me. So all in all Mr. lightning you annoy me to a great extent so ill end this with a closing phrase. You are a disgrace to asians. JK! I heart you!!

Originally Posted by Rera

A warrior with a scythe swings just as slow as a dervish with a scythe, so saying that "1.75 seconds does not compare to the speed of a warrior" is a meaningless statement.

Scythes do not have higher critical chance than any other weapons. The critical chance of weapons improves at the same rate with mastery level.

Dervishes actually do not have a decent IAS skill. That's one of the main reasons to go D/W.

The main thing you have to consider here is whether playing with a scythe is any improvement over playing a normal warrior build. Saying that it "could work" doesn't mean anything, because there's no reason to play it if it isn't better than existing builds.

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I am NOT spamming Warrior skills. Whatever gave you that notion?

Dervishes spamming Dervish attack skills sounds good to me.

Axe Mastery attributes increase its critical hit rate. Swordsmanship works as well. So does Hammer Mastery. Now where does that innate Scythe critical come from?

As I said, I'm not very well versed in the Dervish skills, so I accept any corrections about Dervish skills.

I am also resisting the urge to comment on the skills you take in the picture you provide.

You annoy me "to a great extent" as well, so likewise.

Originally Posted by pham917

You= And Dervishes have 4 regeneration, I don't think they'll have problems spamming 5e skills. Warriors, though, will.

Last time i checked dervishes rarely have any 5 e attack skills. If that were true lmao i woulda stayed a dervish. Sides i also made that statement in regards to the folks that said that a D/W is better. The skills lol are just there for testing. hahah trust me man i pvp and buy skills and test which one are good. My real char is my rp one. If you want innate scythe critcal, take it up with arena nets finest. I proven my point. In all acutallity its not that easy for dervishes to spam 10 e skills that take 10-20 sec to recharge. SO the idea of spamming is retarded. Im jk you dont annoy me. /bow. can i buy your pie?